I know most of you hate me but....

Viper wrote:

 > LOL Oh man... a anti-smoke nut.....

Why should I have to pay for someone's lung cancer if they could easily have
avoided getting it in the first place?

--
JustThe.net - Apple Valley, CA - <a rel="nofollow" style='text-decoration: none;' href="http://JustThe.net/" target="_blank">http://JustThe.net/</a> - 888.480.4NET (4638)
Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / sjsobol RemoveThis @JustThe.net / PGP: 0xE3AE35ED

"In case anyone was wondering, that big glowing globe above the Victor
Valley is the sun." -Victorville _Daily Press_ on the unusually large
amount of rain the Southland has gotten this winter (January 12th, 2005)
 >> Stay informed about: I know most of you hate me but.... 

Viper wrote:
 > Gerry for email use my name at dergal dt com wrote:
 >
  >>Viper wrote:
  >>
   >>>Disco Octopus wrote:
   >>>
   >>>
   >>>>Viper wrote :
   >>>>
   >>>>
   >>>>>Disco Octopus wrote:
   >>>>>
   >>>>>
   >>>>>>Viper wrote :
   >>>>>>
   >>>>>>
   >>>>>>>Disco Octopus wrote:
   >>>>>>>
   >>>>>>>
   >>>>>>>>>Maybe now Bush will help clean up waste like this? And dont get
   >>>>>>>>>me started about Social Security...On SS day at the bank all we
   >>>>>>>>>got all day was drunks and druggies coming in to get their
   >>>>>>>>>monthly check cashed. Why do people get paid by the government
   >>>>>>>>>to get high?
   >>>>>>>>
   >>>>>>>>Maybe you havent "been there" or heard their reasons? These
   >>>>>>>>poeple dont want to be getting the dole. These people dont
   >>>>>>>>want to be alcoholics or junkies. You need to put their shoes
   >>>>>>>>on. You need to feel their position. I dont care who you blame for
   >>>>>>>>their
   >>>>>>>>position, as long as you don't put the blame on them.
   >>>>>>>
   >>>>>>>I talked to them every month for 3 years... They ALL said they
   >>>>>>>was off to the beer/liquor store to get some booze.
   >>>>>>
   >>>>>>Did they say that they would prefer to be off to the liquor store
   >>>>>>than on their to their jobs?
   >>>>>
   >>>>>Didnt ask but when they have been drinking for years you know they
   >>>>>dont want to stop.
   >>>>
   >>>>That is not true Viper.
   >>>>
   >>>>
   >>>>The longer they have been drinking for, the harder it is to stop.
   >>>
   >>>
   >>>Drinking is no different than smoking in my opinion. I went from 2
   >>>packs a day to none in one day. But I did start back up 5 years or
   >>>so later but cigars this time... Have to buy the cheap ones because
   >>>I got no cash
  >>
  >>People like you don't deserve healthcare - not only do you kills your
  >>own body with that crap, its not like its not known that it causes
  >>health problems - but your also killing the people around you, people
  >>who work in bars, your family, your friends ... You complain about
  >>other people being a drain on the system - well, your the guy thats
  >>costing it even more ...
 >
 >
 > LOL Oh man... a anti-smoke nut.....

Nut ? mmm lets see - one year and one month ago I buried my grandfather,
the best part is he stopped smoking when he was 40, he lived to a good
age, but it was smoking that killed him... despite being in the war,
despite all the other stuff he got up to ... I watched him degrade with
lung cancer. My mother has health problems as a result of smoking - so
yes I don't like smoking... Passive smoking is exceptionally rude, and
when you criticise others for being a drain on the economy, then damage
your / their health ... its typical uneducated bollocks from you once
more ...
 >> Stay informed about: I know most of you hate me but.... 

While sitting in a puddle Steve Sobol scribbled in the mud:

 > even with a brother-in-law and sister-in-law who got screwed by my
 > brother-in-law's first wife,

So what you're saying here is that your brother-in-law has married two
bisexual women.

--
D?
 >> Stay informed about: I know most of you hate me but.... 

While sitting in a puddle Steve Sobol scribbled in the mud:

 > I'm all for keeping illegals out of the USA. I live in Southern
 > California, so you can imagine how many people wander up to my neck of
 > the woods

You're wrong. They don't just wander, they run up by the thousands. Now if
Red would just stop them down there...

--
D?
 >> Stay informed about: I know most of you hate me but.... 

GreyWyvern wrote:
: I suspect Viper's "rich woman" was one of these leeches. But can you
: make generalizations about all welfare recipients because of her? Of
: course not.
:
: Grey

I have to say things like this annoy me too. I have not seen anything like
what Viper
mentioned as my job was different.

I used to deliver pizza and I would see a family, usually hispanic because
that is a large portion
of our population here, with 5 or more kids ordering 7 pizzas with a fancier
car or two than anything
I could afford living in government housing and most likely getting welfare
as well.

It really used to irk me. I don't see it anymore so it isn't a weekly
reminder but I still think about that.

*note: I have nothing against hispanic people. There are some pretty famous
ones in this area including
one local newscaster who I look up to. He has done great things for his
community and for kids with
childhood illness. I do have a problem with anyone living off the welfare
system when they don't need to
be regardless of race or country of origin.

Heidi
 >> Stay informed about: I know most of you hate me but.... 

On Tue, 8 Feb 2005 19:53:02 -0500, "Viper" wrote:

 >Disco Octopus wrote:
  >> Viper wrote :
   >>> Disco Octopus wrote:
   >>>>>
   >>>>> Maybe now Bush will help clean up waste like this? And dont get me
   >>>>> started about Social Security...On SS day at the bank all we got
   >>>>> all day was drunks and druggies coming in to get their monthly check
   >>>>> cashed. Why do people get paid by the government to get high?
   >>>>
   >>>> Maybe you havent "been there" or heard their reasons? These poeple
   >>>> dont want to be getting the dole. These people dont want to be
   >>>> alcoholics or junkies. You need to put their shoes on. You need to
   >>>> feel their position. I dont care who you blame for their position,
   >>>> as long as you don't put the blame on them.
   >>>
   >>> I talked to them every month for 3 years... They ALL said they was
   >>> off to the beer/liquor store to get some booze.
  >>
  >> Did they say that they would prefer to be off to the liquor store than
  >> on their to their jobs?
 >
 >Didnt ask but when they have been drinking for years you know they dont want
 >to stop.

Not necessarily true.

A guy from my hometown area, in his late 20s, was an alcoholic -
diagnosed as such. He signed himself up to programs to help him 'dry
out' because he knew it was starting to negatively affect his life
[e.g. his marriage and such]. He did great until back around his
friends, which were generally also co-workers as he worked in the
construction industry so all of his friends worked in construction in
one way or another, or family then temptation got the better of him
and he would 'fall off the wagon'.

Really nice guy in many aspects but alcohol was a weakness to him like
cigarettes are a weakness to some others who try to kick the habit but
find themselves smoking again or unable to quit to begin with.

Carol
 >> Stay informed about: I know most of you hate me but.... 

On Tue, 8 Feb 2005, GreyWyvern wrote:

 > And lo, Disco Octopus didst speak in alt.www.webmaster:
 >
  > > Maybe you havent "been there" or heard their reasons? These poeple dont
  > > want to be getting the dole. These people dont want to be alcoholics or
  > > junkies.
 >
 > The majority of them don't. The trouble is, many of them do.
 >
 > In order to help those who legitimately benefit from a system of
 > benevolence, there will always be a percentage of those who become
 > completely dependant and/or take advantage of it.
 >
 > I suspect Viper's "rich woman" was one of these leeches. But can you make
 > generalizations about all welfare recipients because of her? Of course
 > not.

Brief profiles of two people on welfare (names changed for privacy):

1.

Joe can't get a job. He was suspended from school too many times for
violent behaviour in school that started in his teens to complete his
high school education. The only jobs he could get were for unskilled
labour and lost several jobs due to outbursts of violent temper tantrums.
He eventually ended up in jail for attempted murder. With that record,
he *can't* get a job.

Why was he so violent? Well, while in jail his ourbursts of violent
temper tantrums got worse until one day he had a seizure. Tests at the
hospital revealed that he had a brain tumour. Removing the tumour
stopped the seizures *and* the temper tantrums.

So, his past violent record that makes him virtually unemployable was
likely due to nothing but a brain tumour.

Oh, I see him in the taverns from time to time, socialising. He never
drinks anything but tomato juice, though. I have never seen him touch
alcohol.

2.

Bill used to be a regular at a local soup kitchen. Each month when he got
his checque, he would have dozens of spongers bumming cigarettes from him
and he never said "No." Within a week he would be broke until the next
checque arrived and would be bumming cigarettes from others until then.
I noticed that many others who had no objections to bumming his last
cigarette when he had some would turn him down later with, "Sorry, I only
have half a pack left and can't spare any." I never turned him down,
even if it meant I would go without. When not bumming cigarettes, he
would stand around quietly talking to the walls -- and sometimes listen
to them.

How did he get that way? From what I have heard, he was once a highly
capable individual and highly educated. However, when an accident on a
fishing boat knocked a couple of fishermen who couldn't swim into the
water, he dived in and saved them -- but suffered brain injury due to
prolongued exposure to the cold Atlantic waters and was unable to ever
work again after that.

--
Norman De Forest <a rel="nofollow" style='text-decoration: none;' href="http://www.chebucto.ns.ca/~af380/Profile.html" target="_blank">http://www.chebucto.ns.ca/~af380/Profile.html</a>
af380 DeleteThis @chebucto.ns.ca [=||=] (A Speech Friendly Site)
My Usenet 2005 calendar: <a rel="nofollow" style='text-decoration: none;' href="http://www.chebucto.ns.ca/~af380/Year-2005.txt" target="_blank">http://www.chebucto.ns.ca/~af380/Year-2005.txt</a>
For explanation: <a rel="nofollow" style='text-decoration: none;' href="http://www.chebucto.ns.ca/~af380/Links.Books.html#TandD" target="_blank">http://www.chebucto.ns.ca/~af380/Links.Books.html#TandD</a>
 >> Stay informed about: I know most of you hate me but.... 

Norman L. DeForest wrote:
 > On Tue, 8 Feb 2005, GreyWyvern wrote:
 >
  >> And lo, Disco Octopus didst speak in alt.www.webmaster:
  >>
   >>> Maybe you havent "been there" or heard their reasons? These poeple
   >>> dont want to be getting the dole. These people dont want to be
   >>> alcoholics or junkies.
  >>
  >> The majority of them don't. The trouble is, many of them do.
  >>
  >> In order to help those who legitimately benefit from a system of
  >> benevolence, there will always be a percentage of those who become
  >> completely dependant and/or take advantage of it.
  >>
  >> I suspect Viper's "rich woman" was one of these leeches. But can
  >> you make generalizations about all welfare recipients because of
  >> her? Of course not.
 >
 > Brief profiles of two people on welfare (names changed for privacy):
 >
 > 1.
 >
 > Joe can't get a job. He was suspended from school too many times for
 > violent behaviour in school that started in his teens to complete his
 > high school education. The only jobs he could get were for unskilled
 > labour and lost several jobs due to outbursts of violent temper
 > tantrums. He eventually ended up in jail for attempted murder. With
 > that record,
 > he *can't* get a job.
 >
 > Why was he so violent? Well, while in jail his ourbursts of violent
 > temper tantrums got worse until one day he had a seizure. Tests at
 > the hospital revealed that he had a brain tumour. Removing the tumour
 > stopped the seizures *and* the temper tantrums.
 >
 > So, his past violent record that makes him virtually unemployable was
 > likely due to nothing but a brain tumour.
 >
 > Oh, I see him in the taverns from time to time, socialising. He never
 > drinks anything but tomato juice, though. I have never seen him touch
 > alcohol.
 >
 > 2.
 >
 > Bill used to be a regular at a local soup kitchen. Each month when
 > he got his checque, he would have dozens of spongers bumming
 > cigarettes from him and he never said "No." Within a week he would
 > be broke until the next checque arrived and would be bumming
 > cigarettes from others until then.
 > I noticed that many others who had no objections to bumming his last
 > cigarette when he had some would turn him down later with, "Sorry, I
 > only have half a pack left and can't spare any." I never turned him
 > down,
 > even if it meant I would go without. When not bumming cigarettes, he
 > would stand around quietly talking to the walls -- and sometimes
 > listen
 > to them.
 >
 > How did he get that way? From what I have heard, he was once a highly
 > capable individual and highly educated. However, when an accident on
 > a fishing boat knocked a couple of fishermen who couldn't swim into
 > the water, he dived in and saved them -- but suffered brain injury
 > due to prolongued exposure to the cold Atlantic waters and was unable
 > to ever work again after that.

I have NO problem with either of these 2 getting welfare. Its the ones who
have never worked a day in their life that piss me off. In high school we
was asked what we planned to do after we got out of school. One lady said
she was going to go on welfare and have many kids just to get a bigger check
each month. I know her family, he monther had 6 kids and has been on welfare
for years. So I dont think she was joking.
 >> Stay informed about: I know most of you hate me but.... 

On Tue, 8 Feb 2005 17:51:51 -0500, "Viper" wrote:

 >When I was jobless and my unemployment ran out I got a bad infection in my
 >jaw so I tried to get welfare to help and was told they couldnt because I
 >was a male and could work. The lady told me if I was on drugs or an
 >alcoholic they could help. LOL

Did you try to re-apply or try to talk to someone else?

My husband was initially told he didnt' qualify due to getting
unemployment. We found out, a short time later, that he was
erroneously told this by what the other woman termed "an overzealous
employee" - and so he re-applied. My daughter was still living with us
at the time and she also worked - so her income was factored in and my
husband still qualified for some assistance.

Carol
 >> Stay informed about: I know most of you hate me but.... 

CarolW. wrote:

 >
  >> When I was jobless and my unemployment ran out I got a bad infection
  >> in my jaw so I tried to get welfare to help and was told they
  >> couldnt because I was a male and could work. The lady told me if I
  >> was on drugs or an alcoholic they could help. LOL
 >
 > Did you try to re-apply or try to talk to someone else?
 >
 > My husband was initially told he didnt' qualify due to getting
 > unemployment. We found out, a short time later, that he was
 > erroneously told this by what the other woman termed "an overzealous
 > employee" - and so he re-applied. My daughter was still living with us
 > at the time and she also worked - so her income was factored in and my
 > husband still qualified for some assistance.
 >
 > Carol

No was too much of a pain. At the time I was living with friends and had no
address I could give them. Here if you give an address and its a rental they
will call the landlord and see if you live there. The people I was staying
with wasnt allowed to have anyone living there that wasnt on the lease. To
add a person to the lease it would have cost them another $100 a month that
they nor I could afford. Getting welfare to believe you dont have a
permenant address here is like pulling your own teeth.
 >> Stay informed about: I know most of you hate me but.... 

Duende wrote:

 > So what you're saying here is that your brother-in-law has married two
 > bisexual women.

That's twisted.



--
JustThe.net - Apple Valley, CA - <a rel="nofollow" style='text-decoration: none;' href="http://JustThe.net/" target="_blank">http://JustThe.net/</a> - 888.480.4NET (4638)
Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / sjsobol.RemoveThis@JustThe.net / PGP: 0xE3AE35ED

"In case anyone was wondering, that big glowing globe above the Victor
Valley is the sun." -Victorville _Daily Press_ on the unusually large
amount of rain the Southland has gotten this winter (January 12th, 2005)
 >> Stay informed about: I know most of you hate me but.... 

"Duende" wrote in message

 > While sitting in a puddle Steve Sobol scribbled in the mud:
 >
  >> I'm all for keeping illegals out of the USA. I live in Southern
  >> California, so you can imagine how many people wander up to my neck
  >> of the woods
 >
 > You're wrong. They don't just wander, they run up by the thousands.
 > Now if Red would just stop them down there...

I tried, but my neighbors didn't want to give up all of their low-paid
help; like field hands, gardeners, maids, restaurant workers, nannys,
construction trades, and day laborers. They threatened to run ME out of
the country when I suggested that perhaps they should pay a living wage
so that Americans would take those jobs.
--
Red
 >> Stay informed about: I know most of you hate me but.... 

GreyWyvern spam.DeleteThis@greywyvern.com wrote:
 > And lo, Disco Octopus didst speak in alt.www.webmaster:
 >
  > > Maybe you havent "been there" or heard their reasons? These poeple dont
  > > want to be getting the dole. These people dont want to be alcoholics or
  > > junkies.
 >
 > The majority of them don't. The trouble is, many of them do.
 >

The thing is you don't know how many, and nor does anyone else. There
isn't an awful lot of benefit fraud in the UK. The vast majority of what
there is amounts to people who get benefit and then work in jobs that
don't pay enough to live on. Since you are allowed to earn some additional
money whilst on benefit it's not that easy to judge at what point somebody
begins to defraud the system. They may be working perfectly legally and
declaring the income to the benefit office. The simple fact that they are
working and signing on isn't proof of fraud.

You also can't judge by whether they have nice "stuff". I was earning
pretty well before I got sick, next round of new clothes will be pretty
cheap, but I've still got plenty of relatively expensive clothes from when
I was working. A mate of mine is currently signing on because he does IT
project management for retailers. He's trying to find work in the States
because that's where his partner is. There isn't a lot of short term work
in his field. He goes to sign on riding a very expensive motor bike. It
isn't immediately obvious to an onlooker that it's currently on offer on
ebay.

Two of the wealthiest and most successful people I know spent time
sleeping rough and getting dole, one was at the time also a junkie.
There's a guy sleeping rough round here who has directed shows at the
National Theatre. There are a huge number who are ex-army.

When it comes to refugees it gets even scarier. The simple fact is that
the vast majority really are in fear of their lives if sent home. Bear in
mind that over recent years in the UK the main places refugees have come
from are Iraq, Afghanistan, Sudan and Zimbabwe. Does ANYONE on the group
see those as countries they would leap at the chance to move to?

I don't know how it works in the USA, but in the UK a newly arrived
refugee isn't allowed to work. So they have no choice but to get benefits.

I've been there, and I've both heard and told the stories. I also used to
work on immigration casework for an MP. I know there are scammers, but
they are few and far between, and mostly what they are doing is
fraudulently getting a tiny amount more than they should.

It's a drop in the ocean compared to the huge sums being fraudulently
obtained by tax evasion. The difference is that the sort of people who get
their opinions heard are the ones tempted by, or doing, the tax evasion
not the ones one benefit.

--
eric - <a rel="nofollow" style='text-decoration: none;' href="http://www.ericjarvis.co.uk" target="_blank">www.ericjarvis.co.uk</a>
"I'm British, deep down I sincerely believe that
there isn't anything that can possibly happen that
can't be best dealt with by having a cup of tea"
 >> Stay informed about: I know most of you hate me but....