Starting Web design

On Thu, 14 Feb 2008 14:03:37 -0500, Scott put finger to keyboard and
typed:

>
>"John Bokma" <john.TakeThisOut@castleamber.com> wrote in message
>news:Xns9A4474741A841castleamber@130.133.1.4...
>> "Scott" <altglyphics.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> "John Bokma" <john.TakeThisOut@castleamber.com> wrote in message
>>> news:Xns9A446AA16291Bcastleamber@130.133.1.4...
>>>> "Scott" <altglyphics.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I was think that I should have my boss purchase the Adobe Suite.
>>>>> I am very familiar with photoshop and illustrator, so I thought maybe
>>>>> their other products would work in similar fashion.
>>>>
>>>> Your boss should hire someone instead of buying software
>>>
>>> And hiring our web host, would cost 6000 dollars.
>>> This company itself can not handle that kind of cost.
>>
>> Time is money. Your boss should consider it an investment, just like
>> buying software to do a job. Having someone do it with zero experience is
>> bound to fail many times, and in the end might cost more. Especially
>> taking into account that while you're working on it, you can't work on
>> your normal job.
>>
>> BTW, if you (or your boss) shops around you might find someone who could
>> do it for about 3000 dollars or less.
>>
>John, you're killing me!
>I am the graphics guy and the web will become part of my job.

But what is your boss going to do while you learn the necessary
skills? And is he going to pay for you to attend courses to learn
them, or provide you with books and tutorials?

>So where should I start to grasp this the whole thing?

You need to learn two things as an absolute minimum: HTML/CSS and a
programming language. You will probably also need to learn at least
some database management if you want to write your own eCommerce site.
You don't say what type of system your site is (or will be) hosted on,
so I can't give specific advice about that, but the most common
programming languages on the web these days is PHPn and the most
common database is MySQL. Asuming that's going to be your software of
choice, then these three sites will give you some idea of what you're
in for:

http://www.w3schools.com/html/default.asp
http://www.w3schools.com/php/default.asp
http://learningmysql.com/CMS/

Don't expect it to be instant. Unless you already have programming
skills, then expect it to take well over a year - at least - before
you're ready to write a live eCommerce site.

To put it into perspective, your are in a position equivalent to
someone coming up to you and saying "My boss wants me to design a
full-colour photography magazine. How do I go about it? By the way,
I've used MS Paint - is that a good tool to start with?". And then you
tell them how long it took you to become a skilled designer.

Mark
--
Blog: http://Mark.Goodge.co.uk Photos: http://www.goodge.co.uk
"Look at the stars; look how they shine for you"
 >> Stay informed about: Starting Web design 

John Bokma <john.DeleteThis@castleamber.com> wrote:

>"Scott" <altglyphics.DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> What I need the web site to do is:
>>
>> - basic home page
>> -- login in w/ password (possible register / I'm not sure how that
>> works... cookies?)
>> --- products page (200 items)
>> ---- order page
>>
>> After they choose what they want on the order page, I have it sent to
>> my email. using formmail.
>
>Hire someone, especially if it's just for one customer.
>

It pains me, but I agree with John. Hire a professional. What you
describe is not basic, not easy and not quick.

Matt


--
The Probert Encyclopaedia
http://www.probertencyclopaedia.com
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John Bokma <john.TakeThisOut@castleamber.com> wrote:

>"Scott" <altglyphics.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> John, you're killing me!
>> I am the graphics guy and the web will become part of my job.
>> So where should I start to grasp this the whole thing?
>
>Do your graphics thing, and hire a programmer with 5 years experience as
>Toby (IIRC) suggested. If you know nothing about HTML, do your graphics
>thing in PhotoShop or something similar, and find someone Els who can
>convert it to HTML + CSS

Again. I agree.

>
>If you want to save your job by trying to grasp all this in a week or two,
>I recommend to look for software to create a nice resume.

LOL

Ditto

Matt


--
The Probert Encyclopaedia
http://www.probertencyclopaedia.com
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Blinky the Shark <no.spam.TakeThisOut@box.invalid> wrote:

> John Bokma wrote:
>
>> Rob Waaijenberg <robwaaijenberg.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> go hire someone who knows what she's doing.
>>
>> Damn, does that mean I have to shave my legs, wear a dress, and talk
>> with a high pitched voice again? There are limits to customer
>> satisfaction, you know?
>
> Oh, come on. You didn't mind last time...

I was young and innocent back then.

--
John Bokma http://johnbokma.com/
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(Matt Probert) wrote:

> It pains me, but I agree with John.

It always hurts, and then you feel so much better

--
John Bokma http://johnbokma.com/
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Scott Bryce <sbryce RemoveThis @scottbryce.com> wrote:

>A good Formmail script can be found at
>http://nms-cgi.sourceforge.net/scripts.shtml
>
>If you don't understand web security, please don't write one yourself.
>

Or even use one!

How many copies of "Matt's" (no relation) formmail script are in use
as open relays?

Matt


--
The Probert Encyclopaedia
http://www.probertencyclopaedia.com
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John Bokma wrote:

> and find someone Els who can convert it

Was that a Freudian slip?

--
-bts
-Friends don't let friends drive Vista
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"Beauregard T. Shagnasty" <a.nony.mous.DeleteThis@example.invalid> wrote:

> John Bokma wrote:
>
>> and find someone Els who can convert it
>
> Was that a Freudian slip?

Heh, I somehow always misplace those next to the left shift key.

--
John Bokma http://johnbokma.com/
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John Bokma wrote:

> Blinky the Shark <no.spam.DeleteThis@box.invalid> wrote:
>
>> John Bokma wrote:
>>
>>> Rob Waaijenberg <robwaaijenberg.DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> go hire someone who knows what she's doing.
>>>
>>> Damn, does that mean I have to shave my legs, wear a dress, and talk
>>> with a high pitched voice again? There are limits to customer
>>> satisfaction, you know?
>>
>> Oh, come on. You didn't mind last time...
>
> I was young and innocent back then.

It was *that* long ago?


--
Blinky
Killing all posts from Google Groups
The Usenet Improvement Project: http://improve-usenet.org
Blinky: http://blinkynet.net
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Matt Probert wrote:
> How many copies of "Matt's" (no relation) formmail script are in use
> as open relays?

That is why I suggested the NMS alternative.
 >> Stay informed about: Starting Web design 

John Bokma schreef:
> "Scott" <altglyphics DeleteThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
[snipped]
> and find someone Els who can
> convert it to HTML + CSS
>

See? You knew what I meant.

--
Rob
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Tony wrote:
> With all this discussion, and with the site being posted on the
> thread (and now on Google Groups), it would surprise me if they
> haven't already been hacked.


Currently the security on the site is about as strong as leaving your
key in the front door and a sign hanging on the doorknob telling which
windows have been left open.

But there isn't anything of interest to hack into.

The site owner is a printer who does signage for US Bank. The system the
OP wants is to allow each branch to order its own signage.

I'm taking another look at the site. It looks like the OP is attempting
to create a JavaScript shopping cart. This isn't good. He is using
frames to maintain data from one page to another. This would be a
hacker's dream come true, if there was anything of value to be obtained
from the site...

.... But there is. I don't know if I should mention what I just found,
but the OP will want to take this site down NOW!!
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Scott Bryce wrote:
> Tony wrote:
>> With all this discussion, and with the site being posted on the
>> thread (and now on Google Groups), it would surprise me if they
>> haven't already been hacked.
>
> Currently the security on the site is about as strong as leaving your
> key in the front door and a sign hanging on the doorknob telling which
> windows have been left open.

I'd say it's more like leaving your front door wide open and putting a
sign out front advertising the fact, while you're gone on a 3-week vacation.

> But there isn't anything of interest to hack into.

Hmm - banks, billing, don't know that I'd agree

> The site owner is a printer who does signage for US Bank. The system the
> OP wants is to allow each branch to order its own signage.

I don't think they'll be doing much more of that business.

> I'm taking another look at the site. It looks like the OP is attempting
> to create a JavaScript shopping cart.

"It would be bad" - Dr. Egon Spengler (1984)

> This isn't good. He is using
> frames to maintain data from one page to another. This would be a
> hacker's dream come true, if there was anything of value to be obtained
> from the site...
>
> ... But there is. I don't know if I should mention what I just found,
> but the OP will want to take this site down NOW!!

You mean other than the password to get to the cart: 5*f1xt2r3s - which
I have no qualms about posting here, given that (a) the cart is directly
accessible anyways, and (b) the password is in the source code for the page.

Or the fact that the "login" form doesn't work in Firefox?

Or the fact that the script is completely transparent and easily hacked?

(I'm sure it's none of the above - those are too obvious and in & of
themselves aren't dangerous)


To the OP:
We're not being snide here. We're trying to illustrate exactly how
important it is that you leave this to a professional and not try to
hack it yourself. You do NOT have the knowledge and experience to do
this properly, and the consequences of the inevitable mistakes could be
disastrous for your company. If your boss is incapable of understanding
that, then you need to get yourself the hell out of there and find a
company run by a halfway rational person. You guys will lose a LOT more
than $6000 if you continue along your current path.
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