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Style Sheet Times New Roman

 
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Chaddy2222

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Since: Nov 07, 2007
Posts: 96



(Msg. 16) Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 10:58 pm
Post subject: Re: Style Sheet Times New Roman [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: alt>www>webmaster (more info?)

On Feb 11, 3:29 pm, "Beauregard T. Shagnasty"
<a.nony.m... RemoveThis @example.invalid> wrote:
> Fred Atkinson wrote:
> > "Beauregard T. Shagnasty" wrote:
> >> I borrowed the first row of your table, and had a play with it. The
> >> tables bordered in the reddish color use your default sans-serif
> >> font, whatever it is. The second set is using Times New Roman (if
> >> available on the computer). All of the special character are coded
> >> as either Ø or Ø
>
> >> Examine the source code of this page:
>
> >>http://k75s.home.att.net/test/oslash.html
>
> >>> I appreciate your feedback.
>
> >> See how much easier coding is with CSS?
>
> > But the point is, who knows what crazy font the user will have
> > his/her browser set for.
>
> As evidenced by my sample page, it isn't going to matter. Pick common
> fonts in your style sheet.
>
> font-family: "Trebuchet MS", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;
> font-family: Georgia, Times, "Times New Roman", serif;
>
> > I'd consider another font.  Given time, I'm sure I'll find a nicer
> > one.
>
> Georgia.
>
> Read this while you're contemplating:http://k75s.home.att.net/fontsize.html
>
> ..then consider writing 21st century markup. On your page, you've
> assigned *no* fonts, so naturally a visitor will get to read in whatever
> their default font is. It may be a serif font, it may be sans-serif. But
> if you assign _something_, chances are very good they will see what you
> have selected.
>
> This is why I suggested you take the htmldog.com tutorials.
>
Yeah what he said.
It helps a lot with sorting such trivial issues such as what fonts to
use if you have a good understanding of CSS and know how to use it to
get the best out of it.
--
Regards Chad. http://freewebdesignonline.org

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user295

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Since: Nov 07, 2003
Posts: 366



(Msg. 17) Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 12:15 am
Post subject: Re: Style Sheet Times New Roman [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Fred Atkinson wrote:

> "Beauregard T. Shagnasty" wrote:
>> I see that glyph in several other fonts, including Georgia. It also
>> can be used with sans-serif fonts, monospace fonts...
>>
>> What happens when you eschew using the <font> tags, and place:
>>
>> <p>Fred's special character: Ø or Ø </p>
>>
>> ..in your HTML?
>
> I'm not sure specifically what you mean (coding wise) when you say
> 'eschew'.

Means the same everywhere.
to abstain or keep away from; shun; avoid: to eschew evil.

> I tried just putting it in when strings were transmitted that might
> display that character. But there was a lot of extraneous coding.

That there is, in your table.

> And I was concerned that when the browser's font was very different
> than the slashed zero (Ø) that it would look weird being so different
> from the rest of the characters.

See my following example.

> So I put the <font TNR> tag at the beginning of the table and the
> </font> tag just before the table ends. That way, we don't lose the
> character and the character doesn't look different from the rest of
> what is in the table generated.

Again, I do not see any 'loss of character' when using other fonts.

> Take a look at http://www.wb4aej.com/hamdomain . The script
> generates the enormous table that you see there. You'll see what I
> mean.

I borrowed the first row of your table, and had a play with it. The
tables bordered in the reddish color use your default sans-serif font,
whatever it is. The second set is using Times New Roman (if available on
the computer). All of the special character are coded as either Ø
or Ø

Examine the source code of this page:

http://k75s.home.att.net/test/oslash.html

> I appreciate your feedback.

See how much easier coding is with CSS?

--
-bts
-Friends don't let friends drive Vista

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fatkinson

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Since: Jul 11, 2003
Posts: 187



(Msg. 18) Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 12:15 am
Post subject: Re: Style Sheet Times New Roman [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Mon, 11 Feb 2008 00:15:11 GMT, "Beauregard T. Shagnasty"
<a.nony.mous.DeleteThis@example.invalid> wrote:

>I borrowed the first row of your table, and had a play with it. The
>tables bordered in the reddish color use your default sans-serif font,
>whatever it is. The second set is using Times New Roman (if available on
>the computer). All of the special character are coded as either Ø
>or Ø
>
>Examine the source code of this page:
>
>http://k75s.home.att.net/test/oslash.html
>
>> I appreciate your feedback.
>
>See how much easier coding is with CSS?

But the point is, who knows what crazy font the user will have
his/her browser set for.

I'd consider another font. Given time, I'm sure I'll find a
nicer one.

I do appreciate your feedback.

Regards,



Fred
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user295

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Since: Nov 07, 2003
Posts: 366



(Msg. 19) Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 12:20 am
Post subject: Re: Style Sheet Times New Roman [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Bergamot wrote:

> Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:
>> Fred Atkinson wrote:
>>> The special character is the Ø.
>>
>> What happens when you eschew using the <font> tags, and place:
>> <p>Fred's special character: Ø or Ø </p>
>
> The OP is using it as a slashed zero, but that character is really a
> letter, not a number.

Now that I've seen his page using the character, I'll agree. <g>

> I suppose misusing it like that is no worse than using angle quote
> marks as arrows, which is fairly common.

Those ----» ?

--
-bts
-Friends don't let friends drive Vista
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jstucklex

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Since: Jul 14, 2003
Posts: 1507



(Msg. 20) Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 12:20 am
Post subject: Re: Style Sheet Times New Roman [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:
> Bergamot wrote:
>
>> Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:
>>> Fred Atkinson wrote:
>>>> The special character is the Ø.
>>> What happens when you eschew using the <font> tags, and place:
>>> <p>Fred's special character: Ø or Ø </p>
>> The OP is using it as a slashed zero, but that character is really a
>> letter, not a number.
>
> Now that I've seen his page using the character, I'll agree. <g>
>
>> I suppose misusing it like that is no worse than using angle quote
>> marks as arrows, which is fairly common.
>
> Those ----» ?
>

Actually, it is a slashed zero. All ham calls in the U.S. contain 1-2
characters, a single digit, followed by 1-3 characters.

The slashed-zero is a digit.

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex RemoveThis @attglobal.net
==================
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user295

External


Since: Nov 07, 2003
Posts: 366



(Msg. 21) Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 4:29 am
Post subject: Re: Style Sheet Times New Roman [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Fred Atkinson wrote:

> "Beauregard T. Shagnasty" wrote:
>> I borrowed the first row of your table, and had a play with it. The
>> tables bordered in the reddish color use your default sans-serif
>> font, whatever it is. The second set is using Times New Roman (if
>> available on the computer). All of the special character are coded
>> as either Ø or Ø
>>
>> Examine the source code of this page:
>>
>> http://k75s.home.att.net/test/oslash.html
>>
>>> I appreciate your feedback.
>>
>> See how much easier coding is with CSS?
>
> But the point is, who knows what crazy font the user will have
> his/her browser set for.

As evidenced by my sample page, it isn't going to matter. Pick common
fonts in your style sheet.

font-family: "Trebuchet MS", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;
font-family: Georgia, Times, "Times New Roman", serif;

> I'd consider another font. Given time, I'm sure I'll find a nicer
> one.

Georgia.

Read this while you're contemplating:
http://k75s.home.att.net/fontsize.html

...then consider writing 21st century markup. On your page, you've
assigned *no* fonts, so naturally a visitor will get to read in whatever
their default font is. It may be a serif font, it may be sans-serif. But
if you assign _something_, chances are very good they will see what you
have selected.

This is why I suggested you take the htmldog.com tutorials.

--
-bts
-Friends don't let friends drive Vista
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Bergamot

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Since: Oct 17, 2006
Posts: 65



(Msg. 22) Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 7:01 am
Post subject: Re: Style Sheet Times New Roman [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>
> The slashed-zero is a digit.

Yes, it is, but the character the OP is using is not a slashed-zero.

The Ø or Ø or Ø character is a letter, not a number:
LATIN CAPITAL LETTER O WITH STROKE

http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/00d8/index.htm

--
Berg
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Bergamot

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Since: Oct 17, 2006
Posts: 65



(Msg. 23) Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 7:12 am
Post subject: Re: Style Sheet Times New Roman [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Fred Atkinson wrote:
>
> You aren't thinking like a ham radio operator
> the slashed zero made it clear that it was a zero and not
> the letter O. It's part of ham radio culture.

You don't need to be a ham radio operator to know about a slashed zero.
It's been part of computer programming culture forever as well, and I've
used it for eons myself.

That doesn't change the fact that the character you are using - Ø - is a
*letter* in Unicode, not a number. You're using is as a slashed zero
because it looks similar, not because it is the correct character.

I've glanced around the Unicode charts and haven't yet found a true
slashed zero, but that doesn't mean there isn't one there someplace.

--
Berg
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Bergamot

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Since: Oct 17, 2006
Posts: 65



(Msg. 24) Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 7:20 am
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Jerry Stuckle wrote:
> Bergamot wrote:
>>> Fred Atkinson wrote:
>>>
>>>> The special character is the Ø.
>>
>> I suppose misusing it like that is no worse than...
>
> I suggest you understand the actual use being made of something before
> you declare it a "misuse".

I suggest you understand the actual meaning of Unicode characters before
you declare it is *not* a misuse.

--
Berg
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Tony

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Since: Nov 15, 2007
Posts: 99



(Msg. 25) Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 12:08 pm
Post subject: Re: Style Sheet Times New Roman [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Bergamot wrote:
> Fred Atkinson wrote:
>> You aren't thinking like a ham radio operator
>> the slashed zero made it clear that it was a zero and not
>> the letter O. It's part of ham radio culture.
>
> You don't need to be a ham radio operator to know about a slashed zero.
> It's been part of computer programming culture forever as well, and I've
> used it for eons myself.
>
> That doesn't change the fact that the character you are using - Ø - is a
> *letter* in Unicode, not a number. You're using is as a slashed zero
> because it looks similar, not because it is the correct character.
>
> I've glanced around the Unicode charts and haven't yet found a true
> slashed zero, but that doesn't mean there isn't one there someplace.
>

I would say that communicating clearly is more important than using the
correct character. If the character wold be understood by the target
audience as a zero, then it seems entirely appropriate.
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jstucklex

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Since: Jul 14, 2003
Posts: 1507



(Msg. 26) Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 1:48 pm
Post subject: Re: Style Sheet Times New Roman [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Bergamot wrote:
> Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>> The slashed-zero is a digit.
>
> Yes, it is, but the character the OP is using is not a slashed-zero.
>
> The Ø or Ø or Ø character is a letter, not a number:
> LATIN CAPITAL LETTER O WITH STROKE
>
> http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/00d8/index.htm
>

That's fine. But IN CONTEXT it is the numeral zero.

You have to take the context into account, also.

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex RemoveThis @attglobal.net
==================
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jstucklex

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Since: Jul 14, 2003
Posts: 1507



(Msg. 27) Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 1:49 pm
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Bergamot wrote:
> Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>> Bergamot wrote:
>>>> Fred Atkinson wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> The special character is the Ø.
>>> I suppose misusing it like that is no worse than...
>> I suggest you understand the actual use being made of something before
>> you declare it a "misuse".
>
> I suggest you understand the actual meaning of Unicode characters before
> you declare it is *not* a misuse.
>

I understand unicode characters. And I suggest you understand the
context in which it is used before you declare is to be a misuse.

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex.TakeThisOut@attglobal.net
==================
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Michael Fesser

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Since: Nov 13, 2005
Posts: 22



(Msg. 28) Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 5:11 pm
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..oO(Fred Atkinson)

> But the point is, who knows what crazy font the user will have
>his/her browser set for.

Don't worry. Even if they use their own strange font - almost all fonts
already contain a glyph for the slashed zero (at least on my system) and
modern browsers might also be smart enough to "borrow" a glyph from
another font if they can't find it in the current one.

Micha
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Bergamot

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Since: Oct 17, 2006
Posts: 65



(Msg. 29) Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 5:29 pm
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Jerry Stuckle wrote:
> Bergamot wrote:
>> Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>>> The slashed-zero is a digit.
>>
>> Yes, it is, but the character the OP is using is not a slashed-zero.
>>
>> The Ø or Ø or Ø character is a letter, not a number:
>> LATIN CAPITAL LETTER O WITH STROKE
>>
>> http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/00d8/index.htm
>
> That's fine. But IN CONTEXT it is the numeral zero.
>
> You have to take the context into account, also.

Sorry, but a letter doesn't become a number just because you want it to.

--
Berg
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Bergamot

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Since: Oct 17, 2006
Posts: 65



(Msg. 30) Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 5:39 pm
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Tony wrote:
> Bergamot wrote:
>> Fred Atkinson wrote:
>>>
>>> the slashed zero made it clear that it was a zero and not
>>> the letter O.
>>
>> That doesn't change the fact that the character you are using - Ø - is a
>> *letter* in Unicode, not a number. You're using is as a slashed zero
>> because it looks similar, not because it is the correct character.
>
> I would say that communicating clearly is more important than using the
> correct character.

Characters are used improperly all the time. I use «angle brackets» for
arrows on occasion myself. I think the OP should know that particular
character isn't what he thinks it is and if there is in fact a slashed
zero in Unicode, that's what he should be using instead.

--
Berg
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