Two domains and content? - Quesiton from Client

"Hunter" <thehunter RemoveThis @rogers.ca> wrote in message
news:SqELb.45887$AJB.6696@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...
 > Hi All -
 >
 > I built a site for a client a couple of months ago:
<font color=purple> > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.cranberrycorners.ca/home.shtml</font" target="_blank">http://www.cranberrycorners.ca/home.shtml</font</a>>
 > It does Ok on Google - it's usually listed on the 2nd page for her
keywords.
 > So she's gone and bought a 2nd domain that is more google friendly with
the
 > hopes of getting higher rankings for her site:
<font color=purple> > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.ottawa-gift-baskets.com</font" target="_blank">http://www.ottawa-gift-baskets.com</font</a>>
 >
 > I currently have the 2nd domain parked so it is just a redirect to the
 > original site.
 >
 > She wondered why I could not just duplicate the websites - and I could not
 > give her a good answer as to why that is not a good idea.
 >
 > *IS* it a good idea ? Apart from me ensuring the sites are sync'd - are
 > there any issues with having this duplicate content ? I thought they may
 > fight each other for Google ranking - but what difference would that make
?
 >
 > Any advice, comments much appreciated.
 >
 > david

It is definitely not a good idea. It is considered spamming the search
engines. Search engines penalize sites in the rankings - or may drop the
listing altogether - if the site's content is not unique. Better to be on
the second page, than no page! Pick one domain name and stick with it.

It is not the domain name that matters most when it comes to rankings, it is
the site's content. Rather than messing with alternate domain names, etc.
work on optimizing the content - and to a lesser degree, the design - of the
site and the rankings will improve.

best,
Denise<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Two domains and content? - Quesiton from Client 

While sitting in a puddle Hunter scribbled in the mud:

 > Hi All -
 >
 > I built a site for a client a couple of months ago:
<font color=purple> > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.cranberrycorners.ca/home.shtml</font" target="_blank">http://www.cranberrycorners.ca/home.shtml</font</a>>
 > It does Ok on Google - it's usually listed on the 2nd page for her
 > keywords. So she's gone and bought a 2nd domain that is more google
 > friendly with the hopes of getting higher rankings for her site:
<font color=purple> > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.ottawa-gift-baskets.com</font" target="_blank">http://www.ottawa-gift-baskets.com</font</a>>
 >
 > I currently have the 2nd domain parked so it is just a redirect to the
 > original site.
 >
 > She wondered why I could not just duplicate the websites - and I could
 > not give her a good answer as to why that is not a good idea.
 >
 > *IS* it a good idea ? Apart from me ensuring the sites are sync'd -
 > are there any issues with having this duplicate content ? I thought
 > they may fight each other for Google ranking - but what difference
 > would that make ?
 >
Google doesn't like mirror sites & may drope both of them.



--
Duende<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Two domains and content? - Quesiton from Client 

"Denise" <encks DeleteThis @verizon.net> wrote in message
news:yyELb.1595$3E.63@nwrddc02.gnilink.net...
 > "Hunter" <thehunter DeleteThis @rogers.ca> wrote in message
 > news:SqELb.45887$AJB.6696@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...
  > > Hi All -
  > >
  > > I built a site for a client a couple of months ago:
<font color=green>  > > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.cranberrycorners.ca/home.shtml</font" target="_blank">http://www.cranberrycorners.ca/home.shtml</font</a>>
  > > It does Ok on Google - it's usually listed on the 2nd page for her
 > keywords.
  > > So she's gone and bought a 2nd domain that is more google friendly with
 > the
  > > hopes of getting higher rankings for her site:
<font color=green>  > > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.ottawa-gift-baskets.com</font" target="_blank">http://www.ottawa-gift-baskets.com</font</a>>
  > >
  > > I currently have the 2nd domain parked so it is just a redirect to the
  > > original site.
  > >
  > > She wondered why I could not just duplicate the websites - and I could
not
  > > give her a good answer as to why that is not a good idea.
  > >
  > > *IS* it a good idea ? Apart from me ensuring the sites are sync'd - are
  > > there any issues with having this duplicate content ? I thought they may
  > > fight each other for Google ranking - but what difference would that
make
 > ?
  > >
  > > Any advice, comments much appreciated.
  > >
  > > david
 >
 > It is definitely not a good idea. It is considered spamming the search
 > engines. Search engines penalize sites in the rankings - or may drop the
 > listing altogether - if the site's content is not unique. Better to be on
 > the second page, than no page! Pick one domain name and stick with it.
 >
 > It is not the domain name that matters most when it comes to rankings, it
is
 > the site's content.

Thanks Denise for the quick reply.

re: the domain name: I thought the hyphens in the new url:
ottawa-gift-baskets would be beneficial for her keywords which are "Ottawa
gift baskets". Is this not true ?

Thanks again! david<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Two domains and content? - Quesiton from Client 

Denise wrote in message ...
 > It is definitely not a good idea. It is considered spamming the search
 > engines. Search engines penalize sites in the rankings - or may drop the
 > listing altogether - if the site's content is not unique.

What evidence do you have for that?

If small changes are made to the title, keywords and a little of the
content, how can a search engine possibly know that it's not a completely
different website?<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Two domains and content? - Quesiton from Client 

"Hunter" <thehunter.TakeThisOut@rogers.ca> wrote in message
news:GJELb.46154$AJB.693@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...
 >
 > "Denise" <encks.TakeThisOut@verizon.net> wrote in message
 > news:yyELb.1595$3E.63@nwrddc02.gnilink.net...
  > > "Hunter" <thehunter.TakeThisOut@rogers.ca> wrote in message
  > > news:SqELb.45887$AJB.6696@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...
   > > > Hi All -
   > > >
   > > > I built a site for a client a couple of months ago:
<font color=brown>   > > > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.cranberrycorners.ca/home.shtml</font" target="_blank">http://www.cranberrycorners.ca/home.shtml</font</a>>
   > > > It does Ok on Google - it's usually listed on the 2nd page for her
  > > keywords.
   > > > So she's gone and bought a 2nd domain that is more google friendly
with
  > > the
   > > > hopes of getting higher rankings for her site:
<font color=brown>   > > > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.ottawa-gift-baskets.com</font" target="_blank">http://www.ottawa-gift-baskets.com</font</a>>
   > > >
   > > > I currently have the 2nd domain parked so it is just a redirect to the
   > > > original site.
   > > >
   > > > She wondered why I could not just duplicate the websites - and I could
 > not
   > > > give her a good answer as to why that is not a good idea.
   > > >
   > > > *IS* it a good idea ? Apart from me ensuring the sites are sync'd -
are
   > > > there any issues with having this duplicate content ? I thought they
may
   > > > fight each other for Google ranking - but what difference would that
 > make
  > > ?
   > > >
   > > > Any advice, comments much appreciated.
   > > >
   > > > david
  > >
  > > It is definitely not a good idea. It is considered spamming the search
  > > engines. Search engines penalize sites in the rankings - or may drop the
  > > listing altogether - if the site's content is not unique. Better to be
on
  > > the second page, than no page! Pick one domain name and stick with it.
  > >
  > > It is not the domain name that matters most when it comes to rankings,
it
 > is
  > > the site's content.
 >
 > Thanks Denise for the quick reply.
 >
 > re: the domain name: I thought the hyphens in the new url:
 > ottawa-gift-baskets would be beneficial for her keywords which are "Ottawa
 > gift baskets". Is this not true ?
 >
 > Thanks again! david

Hi David,

There may or may not be some benefit in using ottawa-gift-baets.ca instead
of cranberrycorners.ca. Some search engines may take the domain name into
account when determining page rank. Whether it will make much of a
difference is debatable; it is probably pretty negligible.

Also, hyphens can be problematic. How will you tell your customers -
verbally - what the URL is?
You would say: "ottawa hyphen gift hyphen baskets dot com" -- hard for folks
to remember all those hyphens, and sounds rather generic
But "cranberry corners dot ca" is much easier and more memorable

Here are a couple takes on the subject:
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.searchengineguide.com/whalen/2002/0627_jw1.html" target="_blank">http://www.searchengineguide.com/whalen/2002/0627_jw1.html</a>
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.searchengineguide.com/1stsearchranking/2001/0302_1st1.html" target="_blank">http://www.searchengineguide.com/1stsearchranking/2001/0302_1st1.html</a>
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.addme.com/issue140.htm" target="_blank">http://www.addme.com/issue140.htm</a>

My own primary website has a keyword-free name (like cranberrycorners) but
consistently ranks in the top 1-3 results for my targeted keywords anyway -
it is the content that got those rankings, not the domain name.

If I were you, I'd just keep cranberrycorners.ca and optimise it for the
search engines. There's a lot you could do to make it more search-engine
friendly.

Whatever you choose to do, use one domain name or the other. Using both
would be disastrous.


best,
Denise<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Two domains and content? - Quesiton from Client 

"Steve R." <stevie_ritchie(NOSPAM)@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ATELb.11070$ok2.121755717@news-text.cableinet.net...
 > Denise wrote in message ...
  > > It is definitely not a good idea. It is considered spamming the search
  > > engines. Search engines penalize sites in the rankings - or may drop the
  > > listing altogether - if the site's content is not unique.
 >
 > What evidence do you have for that?
 >
 > If small changes are made to the title, keywords and a little of the
 > content, how can a search engine possibly know that it's not a completely
 > different website?
 >

All major search engines have algorithms to check for duplicate content. If
content is substantially the same for two websites, they may both be dropped
substantially in the rankings, or dropped completely. This is well-known in
the SEO world.

Google even tells us, very directly not to post duplicate content. See:
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.google.com/webmasters/guidelines.html#quality" target="_blank">http://www.google.com/webmasters/guidelines.html#quality</a>
Other search engines have very similar guidelines.

best,
Denise<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Two domains and content? - Quesiton from Client 

On Fri, 09 Jan 2004 21:30:16 GMT, Denise wrote:

 > "Steve R." <stevie_ritchie(NOSPAM)@hotmail.com> wrote in message
 > news:ATELb.11070$ok2.121755717@news-text.cableinet.net...
  >> Denise wrote in message ...
   >>> It is definitely not a good idea. It is considered spamming the search
   >>> engines. Search engines penalize sites in the rankings - or may drop the
   >>> listing altogether - if the site's content is not unique.
  >>
  >> What evidence do you have for that?
  >>
  >> If small changes are made to the title, keywords and a little of the
  >> content, how can a search engine possibly know that it's not a completely
  >> different website?
  >>
 >
 > All major search engines have algorithms to check for duplicate content. If
 > content is substantially the same for two websites, they may both be dropped
 > substantially in the rankings, or dropped completely. This is well-known in
 > the SEO world.

They better differentiate between two identical sites that were submitted
to them and the case were they find the mirror site themselves.
If I never submitted the mirror site and their spider founds it, they
better not penalize my first site in the rankings.
I guess I would put a robots.txt in the mirror site and tell spiders not to
index anything.


--
Karim
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.cheapesthosting.com" target="_blank">http://www.cheapesthosting.com</a> - Receive 99% spam free emails<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Two domains and content? - Quesiton from Client 

"Denise" <encks RemoveThis @verizon.net> wrote in message
news:o_ELb.1884$3E.729@nwrddc02.gnilink.net...
 > "Hunter" <thehunter RemoveThis @rogers.ca> wrote in message
 > news:GJELb.46154$AJB.693@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...
  > >
  > > "Denise" <encks RemoveThis @verizon.net> wrote in message
  > > news:yyELb.1595$3E.63@nwrddc02.gnilink.net...
   > > > "Hunter" <thehunter RemoveThis @rogers.ca> wrote in message
   > > > news:SqELb.45887$AJB.6696@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...
   > > > > Hi All -
   > > > >
   > > > > I built a site for a client a couple of months ago:
<font color=brown>   > > > > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.cranberrycorners.ca/home.shtml</font" target="_blank">http://www.cranberrycorners.ca/home.shtml</font</a>>
   > > > > It does Ok on Google - it's usually listed on the 2nd page for her
   > > > keywords.
   > > > > So she's gone and bought a 2nd domain that is more google friendly
 > with
   > > > the
   > > > > hopes of getting higher rankings for her site:
<font color=brown>   > > > > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.ottawa-gift-baskets.com</font" target="_blank">http://www.ottawa-gift-baskets.com</font</a>>
   > > > >
   > > > > I currently have the 2nd domain parked so it is just a redirect to
the
   > > > > original site.
   > > > >
   > > > > She wondered why I could not just duplicate the websites - and I
could
  > > not
   > > > > give her a good answer as to why that is not a good idea.
   > > > >
   > > > > *IS* it a good idea ? Apart from me ensuring the sites are sync'd -
 > are
   > > > > there any issues with having this duplicate content ? I thought they
 > may
   > > > > fight each other for Google ranking - but what difference would that
  > > make
   > > > ?
   > > > >
   > > > > Any advice, comments much appreciated.
   > > > >
   > > > > david
   > > >
   > > > It is definitely not a good idea. It is considered spamming the search
   > > > engines. Search engines penalize sites in the rankings - or may drop
the
   > > > listing altogether - if the site's content is not unique. Better to be
 > on
   > > > the second page, than no page! Pick one domain name and stick with it.
   > > >
   > > > It is not the domain name that matters most when it comes to rankings,
 > it
  > > is
   > > > the site's content.
  > >
  > > Thanks Denise for the quick reply.
  > >
  > > re: the domain name: I thought the hyphens in the new url:
  > > ottawa-gift-baskets would be beneficial for her keywords which are
"Ottawa
  > > gift baskets". Is this not true ?
  > >
  > > Thanks again! david
 >
 > Hi David,
 >
 > There may or may not be some benefit in using ottawa-gift-baets.ca instead
 > of cranberrycorners.ca. Some search engines may take the domain name into
 > account when determining page rank. Whether it will make much of a
 > difference is debatable; it is probably pretty negligible.
 >
 > Also, hyphens can be problematic. How will you tell your customers -
 > verbally - what the URL is?
 > You would say: "ottawa hyphen gift hyphen baskets dot com" -- hard for
folks
 > to remember all those hyphens, and sounds rather generic
 > But "cranberry corners dot ca" is much easier and more memorable
 >
 > Here are a couple takes on the subject:
<font color=purple> > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.searchengineguide.com/whalen/2002/0627_jw1.html</font" target="_blank">http://www.searchengineguide.com/whalen/2002/0627_jw1.html</font</a>>
<font color=purple> > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.searchengineguide.com/1stsearchranking/2001/0302_1st1.html</font" target="_blank">http://www.searchengineguide.com/1stsearchranking/2001/0302_1st1.html</font</a>>
<font color=purple> > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.addme.com/issue140.htm</font" target="_blank">http://www.addme.com/issue140.htm</font</a>>
 >
 > My own primary website has a keyword-free name (like cranberrycorners) but
 > consistently ranks in the top 1-3 results for my targeted keywords
anyway -
 > it is the content that got those rankings, not the domain name.
 >
 > If I were you, I'd just keep cranberrycorners.ca and optimise it for the
 > search engines. There's a lot you could do to make it more search-engine
 > friendly.
 >
 > Whatever you choose to do, use one domain name or the other. Using both
 > would be disastrous.
 >
 >
Thanks again Denise.

We were actually going use cranberrycorners.ca for marketing, promotional
material, to verbalize the website and just use ottawa-gift-baskets for the
search engine.

I'll be sure to read up on the links you sent.

Merci, david


 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Two domains and content? - Quesiton from Client 

"Steve R." <stevie_ritchie(NOSPAM)@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ATELb.11070$ok2.121755717@news-text.cableinet.net...
 > Denise wrote in message ...
  > > It is definitely not a good idea. It is considered spamming the search
  > > engines. Search engines penalize sites in the rankings - or may drop the
  > > listing altogether - if the site's content is not unique.
 >
 > What evidence do you have for that?
 >
 > If small changes are made to the title, keywords and a little of the
 > content, how can a search engine possibly know that it's not a completely
 > different website?
 >

And here is some more on duplicate content, and what the various major
search engines have to say about it:
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.seologic.com/faq/mirror-sites-pages.php" target="_blank">http://www.seologic.com/faq/mirror-sites-pages.php</a>

best,
Denise<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Two domains and content? - Quesiton from Client 

 > All major search engines have algorithms to check for duplicate content. If
 > content is substantially the same for two websites, they may both be dropped
 > substantially in the rankings, or dropped completely. This is well-known in
 > the SEO world.
 > Google even tells us, very directly not to post duplicate content. See:
<font color=purple> > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.google.com/webmasters/guidelines.html#quality</font" target="_blank">http://www.google.com/webmasters/guidelines.html#quality</font</a>>
 > Other search engines have very similar guidelines.

They mean farms of duplicate content, which has the purpose of spamming
the search engine. It's *NOT* spamming to have, say a backup site with the
same content. It's not uncommon to have a backup site on another domain
just in case the server would be down. That 's *not* a trick to fool the search
engine and I'd be very surprised if you can proove for us that Google would
consider such a case as "not allowed".

/Mike
MHC Synthesizers and Effects. <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.mhc.se/software/plugins/" target="_blank">http://www.mhc.se/software/plugins/</a><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Two domains and content? - Quesiton from Client 

 > And here is some more on duplicate content, and what the various major
 > search engines have to say about it:
<font color=purple> > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.seologic.com/faq/mirror-sites-pages.php</font" target="_blank">http://www.seologic.com/faq/mirror-sites-pages.php</font</a>>
 >

It's clearly written: "substantially duplicate content".
Having a spare site is *not* substantially duplicate content.
A farm of 200 sites is.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Two domains and content? - Quesiton from Client 

Denise wrote:
 > "Hunter" <thehunter DeleteThis @rogers.ca> wrote in message
 > news:GJELb.46154$AJB.693@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...
  >>
  >> "Denise" <encks DeleteThis @verizon.net> wrote in message
  >> news:yyELb.1595$3E.63@nwrddc02.gnilink.net...
   >>> "Hunter" <thehunter DeleteThis @rogers.ca> wrote in message
   >>> news:SqELb.45887$AJB.6696@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...
   >>>> Hi All -
   >>>>
   >>>> I built a site for a client a couple of months ago:
<font color=brown>   >>>> <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.cranberrycorners.ca/home.shtml</font" target="_blank">http://www.cranberrycorners.ca/home.shtml</font</a>>
   >>>> It does Ok on Google - it's usually listed on the 2nd page for her
   >>>> keywords. So she's gone and bought a 2nd domain that is more
   >>>> google friendly
 > with
   >>> the
   >>>> hopes of getting higher rankings for her site:
<font color=brown>   >>>> <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.ottawa-gift-baskets.com</font" target="_blank">http://www.ottawa-gift-baskets.com</font</a>>
<snip>
   >>>> *IS* it a good idea ? Apart from me ensuring the sites are sync'd
   >>>> - are there any issues with having this duplicate content ? I
   >>>> thought they may fight each other for Google ranking - but what
   >>>> difference would that
  >> make
   >>> ?
   >>>>
   >>>> Any advice, comments much appreciated.
   >>>>
   >>>> david
   >>>
   >>> It is definitely not a good idea. It is considered spamming the
   >>> search engines. Search engines penalize sites in the rankings - or
   >>> may drop the listing altogether - if the site's content is not
   >>> unique. Better to be on the second page, than no page! Pick one
   >>> domain name and stick with it.
   >>>
   >>> It is not the domain name that matters most when it comes to
   >>> rankings,

Whilst the benefit of the hyphenated name is relatively small, that can be
multiplied several times over by using absolute URLs, have a look at the
code for:
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.hotel-ireland.com/" target="_blank">http://www.hotel-ireland.com/</a> (1st for "Ireland hotels" in Google) or
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.travel-hotels-ireland.com/" target="_blank">http://www.travel-hotels-ireland.com/</a> - ugly - truly ugly - but effective.


--
PeterMcC
If you feel that any of the above is incorrect,
inappropriate or offensive in any way,
please ignore it and accept my apologies.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Two domains and content? - Quesiton from Client 

"Richard" <anonymous.TakeThisOut@127.000> wrote in message
news:btn61a0n2l@enews1.newsguy.com...
 > Swap the contents onto the new domain name.
 > Then redirect from the original site.
 > Just say "cranberry corners has moved to a new site".


That solution should work for everyone. I work with a lot of mom and pop
businesses many of which had mirror sites when I met them. They seemed to
feel that if you build the right domain name, they will come. It seems as
if they see domain name creation as effective marketing.

None of these mirror sites seemed to ever have been penalized, but how would
I know? None of them had any SEO, their efforts at internet marketing were
directed towards creating catchy or keyword rich domain names. It was if
they believed that people typed <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.searchterm.com" target="_blank">www.searchterm.com</a> into the browser.

The only solution that satisfies all is to focus SEO efforts on one site and
redirect all the traffic attracted by other domain names to that main site.
Most searchers wouldn't even notice.

It is a pain to verbalize Ottawa hyphen gift hyphen baskets dot com. Use
both domains and redirect the traffic from one to the other. I've never
heard of a penalty for redirects.

M<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Two domains and content? - Quesiton from Client