HTML in e-mail: Can forms be used?

Blinky the Shark <no.spam.DeleteThis@box.invalid> wrote in
news:slrnfgqi3p.dr2.no.spam@thurston.blinkynet.net:

> Karl Groves wrote:
>> Let me preface this by saying we don't need to get into a discussion
>> about the numerous problems with HTML e-mail. I need to supply an
>> answer to someone about a very specific question: What sort of
>> problems are possible if you send a form via HTML e-mail?
>
> Very Specific Problem #1: The intended recipient, blocking HTML emails,
> will never see it.
>
>

You must've missed the first sentence in my post.


Karl
 >> Stay informed about: HTML in e-mail: Can forms be used? 

"Karl Groves" <karl.DeleteThis@NOSPAMkarlcore.com> wrote in message
news:Xns99C5AD6CF8FB0karlkarlcorecom@199.45.49.11...
> Let me preface this by saying we don't need to get into a discussion about
> the numerous problems with HTML e-mail. I need to supply an answer to
> someone about a very specific question: What sort of problems are possible
> if you send a form via HTML e-mail? I don't have any personal experience
> in doing so (frankly it is the kind of thing I'd never even think of
> doing). I imagine that the form itself would be displayed, but I also
> think
> most mail clients would generate all sorts of security warnings possibly
> even disable the form. Anyone have any experience with this?
>

With Outlook Express 6 in Windows there will be a popup warning the customer
when they click the submit button. This is the default setting for Outlook
Express ("restricted zone" for security level).

The other problem with the popup in Outlook Express is what it says: It uses
the "zone" name so if somebody clicks on the SUBMIT button they will see a
message along the lines of "You are about to go to a restricted website" or
something to that effect. Some users will be able to figure that out, but
probably a good 75% of them will assume that popup means they are being
directed to a porn site.


For Hotmail they will disable the form and there is no workaround for this.
They actually change the source code for the email so that your FORM tag is
just <form> and clicking the submit button does nothing.

You will probably find that this is case just about everywhere. Services
like Hotmail, Yahoo, GMail, AOL, etc all do it to protect their end users.
 >> Stay informed about: HTML in e-mail: Can forms be used? 

Blinky the Shark <no.spam.DeleteThis@box.invalid> wrote in
news:slrnfgqket.dr2.no.spam@thurston.blinkynet.net:

> Karl Groves wrote:
>> Blinky the Shark <no.spam.DeleteThis@box.invalid> wrote in
>> news:slrnfgqi3p.dr2.no.spam@thurston.blinkynet.net:
>>
>>> Karl Groves wrote:
>>>> Let me preface this by saying we don't need to get into a
>>>> discussion about the numerous problems with HTML e-mail. I need to
>>>> supply an answer to someone about a very specific question: What
>>>> sort of problems are possible if you send a form via HTML e-mail?
>>>
>>> Very Specific Problem #1: The intended recipient, blocking HTML
>>> emails, will never see it.
>>
>> You must've missed the first sentence in my post.
>
> I read it and adhered to it, carefully giving you a very specific
> answer to your "very specific question", Karl. Your question was
> "what sort of problems are possible" and I listed one, which was
> neither a discussion nor "numerous problems".
>
>

But it was one of the already well known issues with sending HTML e-mail.

Karl
 >> Stay informed about: HTML in e-mail: Can forms be used? 

"Auggie" <Imperial.Palace.DeleteThis@Rome.It> wrote in
news:MhcPi.4557$G25.517@edtnps89:

>
> "Karl Groves" <karl.DeleteThis@NOSPAMkarlcore.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns99C5AD6CF8FB0karlkarlcorecom@199.45.49.11...
>> Let me preface this by saying we don't need to get into a discussion
>> about the numerous problems with HTML e-mail. I need to supply an
>> answer to someone about a very specific question: What sort of
>> problems are possible if you send a form via HTML e-mail? I don't
>> have any personal experience in doing so (frankly it is the kind of
>> thing I'd never even think of doing). I imagine that the form itself
>> would be displayed, but I also think
>> most mail clients would generate all sorts of security warnings
>> possibly even disable the form. Anyone have any experience with
>> this?
>>
>
> With Outlook Express 6 in Windows there will be a popup warning the
> customer when they click the submit button. This is the default
> setting for Outlook Express ("restricted zone" for security level).
>
> The other problem with the popup in Outlook Express is what it says:
> It uses the "zone" name so if somebody clicks on the SUBMIT button
> they will see a message along the lines of "You are about to go to a
> restricted website" or something to that effect. Some users will be
> able to figure that out, but probably a good 75% of them will assume
> that popup means they are being directed to a porn site.
>
>
> For Hotmail they will disable the form and there is no workaround for
> this. They actually change the source code for the email so that your
> FORM tag is just <form> and clicking the submit button does nothing.
>
> You will probably find that this is case just about everywhere.
> Services like Hotmail, Yahoo, GMail, AOL, etc all do it to protect
> their end users.
>
>

Thanks!

Karl
 >> Stay informed about: HTML in e-mail: Can forms be used? 

Karl Groves wrote:
> Let me preface this by saying we don't need to get into a discussion
> about the numerous problems with HTML e-mail. I need to supply an
> answer to someone about a very specific question: What sort of
> problems are possible if you send a form via HTML e-mail?

Very Specific Problem #1: The intended recipient, blocking HTML emails,
will never see it.


--
Blinky RLU 297263
Killing all posts from Google Groups
The Usenet Improvement Project - http://improve-usenet.org
 >> Stay informed about: HTML in e-mail: Can forms be used? 

Blinky the Shark <no.spam RemoveThis @box.invalid> wrote in
news:slrnfgqrfv.g39.no.spam@thurston.blinkynet.net:

> You didn't ask for obscure problems, when you asked for problems after
> first saying you didn't want to hear about problems.
>

I'm starting to feel like Charlie Brown. lol

Karl
 >> Stay informed about: HTML in e-mail: Can forms be used? 

Karl Groves wrote:
> Blinky the Shark <no.spam.RemoveThis@box.invalid> wrote in
> news:slrnfgqi3p.dr2.no.spam@thurston.blinkynet.net:
>
>> Karl Groves wrote:
>>> Let me preface this by saying we don't need to get into a discussion
>>> about the numerous problems with HTML e-mail. I need to supply an
>>> answer to someone about a very specific question: What sort of
>>> problems are possible if you send a form via HTML e-mail?
>>
>> Very Specific Problem #1: The intended recipient, blocking HTML emails,
>> will never see it.
>
> You must've missed the first sentence in my post.

I read it and adhered to it, carefully giving you a very specific answer
to your "very specific question", Karl. Your question was "what sort of
problems are possible" and I listed one, which was neither a discussion
nor "numerous problems".


--
Blinky RLU 297263
Killing all posts from Google Groups
The Usenet Improvement Project - http://improve-usenet.org
 >> Stay informed about: HTML in e-mail: Can forms be used? 

Karl Groves wrote:
> Blinky the Shark <no.spam DeleteThis @box.invalid> wrote in
> news:slrnfgqket.dr2.no.spam@thurston.blinkynet.net:
>
>> Karl Groves wrote:
>>> Blinky the Shark <no.spam DeleteThis @box.invalid> wrote in
>>> news:slrnfgqi3p.dr2.no.spam@thurston.blinkynet.net:
>>>
>>>> Karl Groves wrote:
>>>>> Let me preface this by saying we don't need to get into a
>>>>> discussion about the numerous problems with HTML e-mail. I need to
>>>>> supply an answer to someone about a very specific question: What
>>>>> sort of problems are possible if you send a form via HTML e-mail?
>>>>
>>>> Very Specific Problem #1: The intended recipient, blocking HTML
>>>> emails, will never see it.
>>>
>>> You must've missed the first sentence in my post.
>>
>> I read it and adhered to it, carefully giving you a very specific
>> answer to your "very specific question", Karl. Your question was
>> "what sort of problems are possible" and I listed one, which was
>> neither a discussion nor "numerous problems".
>
> But it was one of the already well known issues with sending HTML e-mail.

You didn't ask for obscure problems, when you asked for problems after
first saying you didn't want to hear about problems.


--
Blinky RLU 297263
Killing all posts from Google Groups
The Usenet Improvement Project - http://improve-usenet.org
 >> Stay informed about: HTML in e-mail: Can forms be used? 

On 2007-10-10, Karl Groves <karl DeleteThis @NOSPAMkarlcore.com> wrote:
> Let me preface this by saying we don't need to get into a discussion about
> the numerous problems with HTML e-mail. I need to supply an answer to
> someone about a very specific question: What sort of problems are possible
> if you send a form via HTML e-mail? I don't have any personal experience
> in doing so (frankly it is the kind of thing I'd never even think of
> doing). I imagine that the form itself would be displayed, but I also think
> most mail clients would generate all sorts of security warnings possibly
> even disable the form. Anyone have any experience with this?

I did this recently for a customer using Outlook. We had to tweak his security
settings, but we did get it to work.


>
> TIA
>


--
Steve Sobol, Victorville, CA PGP:0xE3AE35ED www.SteveSobol.com

Wahoo! Indians beat New York to advance to the AL Championship Series!
http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-al9oct09,1,5871580.story
 >> Stay informed about: HTML in e-mail: Can forms be used? 

Karl Groves wrote:
> Blinky the Shark <no.spam.RemoveThis@box.invalid> wrote in
> news:slrnfgqrfv.g39.no.spam@thurston.blinkynet.net:
>
>> You didn't ask for obscure problems, when you asked for problems after
>> first saying you didn't want to hear about problems.
>
> I'm starting to feel like Charlie Brown. lol

Sure, I'll hold your football while you place-kick it...


--
Blinky RLU 297263
Killing all posts from Google Groups
The Usenet Improvement Project - http://improve-usenet.org
 >> Stay informed about: HTML in e-mail: Can forms be used? 

Karl Groves wrote:

> BTW - where ya been?

Busy

--
Els http://locusmeus.com/
 >> Stay informed about: HTML in e-mail: Can forms be used? 

Karl Groves wrote:

> What sort of problems are possible if you send a form via HTML e-mail?

Specifically in Thunderbird, the form cannot be submitted by the
recipient. I've received online polls via email on several occasions and
I have never been able to complete the ones that embed their forms
within the email, instead having to click the link at the bottom to go
do it on their site.

--
Dylan Parry
http://electricfreedom.org | http://webpageworkshop.co.uk

The opinions stated above are not necessarily representative of
those of my cats. All opinions expressed are entirely your own.
 >> Stay informed about: HTML in e-mail: Can forms be used? 

Karl Groves wrote:
> Blinky the Shark <no.spam.TakeThisOut@box.invalid> wrote in
> news:slrnfgqi3p.dr2.no.spam@thurston.blinkynet.net:
>
>> Karl Groves wrote:
>>> Let me preface this by saying we don't need to get into a discussion
>>> about the numerous problems with HTML e-mail. I need to supply an
>>> answer to someone about a very specific question: What sort of
>>> problems are possible if you send a form via HTML e-mail?
>> Very Specific Problem #1: The intended recipient, blocking HTML emails,
>> will never see it.
>
> You must've missed the first sentence in my post.

It's still a relevant point, though. The fact that not everyone will see
HTML emails as HTML isn't necessarily a problem if they're well-written.
If you use text/alternative to provide a plain-text fallback, and write
the HTML itself in such a way that it's still readable when rendered
into plain text by software (like Outlook) which converts it, then the
content of an HTML email is still usable by the recipient even if they
can't see all the colours and images that you sent along with it. It's
not too difficult to get an HTML email to degrade gracefully to plain
text, provided you ensure that all the actual content (as opposed to
layout and decoration) is in text rather than images, so for most
purposes it doesn't actually matter that not all recipients will see the
HTML enhancements.

However, if you're going to put something into the email which actually
requires HTML in order to function, then it does matter. A form element
won't degrade gracefully - if it isn't rendered as intended, then it
simply won't function at all. So, instead of the problem being the
relatively small number of potential recipients who can't handle HTML or
multipart in any form - even to degrade it - the issue is the number of
potential recipients who can't handle HTML in exactly the form in which
it is sent - which is a lot higher.

Mark
--
http://mark.goodge.co.uk
 >> Stay informed about: HTML in e-mail: Can forms be used?